Feminist Astrology with Babs Cheung

Becky Mollenkamp: Hi Babs, how are you today? I’m so excited to chat with you. We just admitted before we started recording, we’re both a little rundown, not as peppy as we would like to be, didn’t get as much sleep as we would like, but I have a feeling we’ll pull this out.

Babs Cheung: Yeah, it’ll be great. It’ll be really candid because it’ll be our thoughts without rest.

Becky Mollenkamp: Exactly, which could be good or bad. Well, I’m gonna start this the way I always do, which is having you tell us about your relationship with feminism.

Babs Cheung: My relationship with feminism, we are in a long-term committed relationship. We started like all the way back as childhood sweethearts and here we are, battling it out, taking on the world and patriarchy. And that is honestly, I think, my deepest and most loving relationship of all. It’s me and feminism, we go really far back.

Becky Mollenkamp: What a lovely love note to feminism, that’s so nice. Has there been any complicated moments or has it always been really easy and clear for you what your feminism looks like?

Babs Cheung: No, so complicated. So, so complicated. I think it got complicated as I grew up and had to face the world that didn’t necessarily welcome feminism. So it was incredibly polarizing, especially now. I think it’s the most politically charged it’s ever been. I thought that like 2016 was politically charged, and no, no, no, this is the one. And was it 2016? When was Trump?

Becky Mollenkamp: Yeah.

Babs Cheung: Okay, with the pandemic and time jumping, I don’t even know anymore. But yeah, okay. What is time, truly? So, I thought it was bad back then, and now everything is worse. But at the same time, I was just talking about this yesterday with a friend about the Barbie movie, which happened just last year. We were talking about how the Barbie movie was very feminist-light.

Becky Mollenkamp: What is time?

Babs Cheung: It was like a nice intro to feminism, whereas all the people I know who have been with feminism since way back are like, this is not made for me. This is clearly not up-level enough, right? But I’ve come to grips with the fact that people are still discovering what feminism is, and we need to make space for that. The more people we have, the better off we’ll be at ending patriarchy.

Becky Mollenkamp: Yeah, I wrestled with that since seeing the movie. My initial reaction was like, ho-hum, kind of annoyed. Why are we all rah-rah about this when it’s just so Feminism 101 at best? It’s my feminism of 20 years ago, blah blah. But then I’ve come around, I think, more to where you are, realizing we need entry points for everyone. And it’s elitist, probably privileged and even supremacist of me to be like, ho-hum.

Babs Cheung: Ha ha ha!

Becky Mollenkamp: Yeah, because I want more people at the table. If that movie gets some young girl or even some older woman to say, “Whoa, I never thought of it that way,” then yay! We need more at the table. Anyway, thank you, I love that. OK, well, speaking of feminism, your Instagram bio says you’re an astrologer on a mission to take down patriarchy. I don’t know that most people, at least for myself, ever necessarily thought about astrology and patriarchy in the same sentence. I’ll be honest, I’ve always thought of astrology as more like a fun thing, like a women’s magazine thing, something silly. You are the person who really opened my eyes to a whole new world with astrology. And it’s interesting because my own journey with feminism has been more of this elitist intellectual place. I’ve been softening my edges in the last few years, realizing that my vision of feminism, this elitist intellectual approach, was actually pretty patriarchal in a lot of ways, right? And so these tarot and astrology and sort of divine feminine concepts were always something I called woo-woo, and it wasn’t for me. I always looked my nose down on it, and you’ve helped me see that no, this stuff really is feminist and important. So, tell us, how is astrology feminist?

Babs Cheung: Yeah, so for me, at least, my relationship with feminism starts with a question. I always questioned why things were the way they were. My feminist roots and my astrological roots come from the same place. I always like to joke that the quickest way to make a witch is to raise her Catholic because I was raised Catholic. I was sent to Sunday school, and I would constantly ask, why are there only two roles for women? It’s either the immaculate virgin who gets pregnant or the whore, and there’s no in-between. Maybe the one lady with the washing of the feet, but then everyone jumps on the bandwagon anyway. So, maybe two and a half roles for women. That’s it? It’s just a book about men, written by men. No wonder.

Feminism and astrology are really connected because it wasn’t just my rebellion against patriarchy, but when I looked into the history of astrology and learned that theologians were supported by the Catholic Church to learn astrology, I was like, wait, this was a boys’ club? Of course, because who got to read? White men, right? Marginalized people weren’t reading it. We weren’t learning astrology. It was the educated class, specifically men, that had the privilege to learn it. And yet somehow, fast forward all these years, and now it’s only in women’s magazines.

Becky Mollenkamp: Great.

Babs Cheung: There was a weird disconnection there. To me, astrology became weaponized over time because patriarchy was in bed with capitalism, and capitalism realized, “Hey, we can make money off people’s insecurities, especially women’s insecurities.” Astrology became a fun way to do that. They made lots of money.

Becky Mollenkamp: We can create their insecurities and then profit off of those insecurities. Nothing has changed about that over hundreds of years, I think.

Babs Cheung: Yes, exactly. But astrology happens to be a great vehicle because it’s cute, and there’s a lot of merchandise that goes along with it. There’s nothing wrong with representing that you’re a Scorpio, but capitalism uses your desire to identify against you, which is the world we live in, and it’s broken and it sucks. What else is new?

Becky Mollenkamp: Right. Well, I think people might be curious, like when you hear about being raised Catholic, how did you find your way into dedicating your life to astrology? Because I know you studied philosophy, and I’m curious about the links there. But I also know, like anybody with a degree in philosophy, you end up doing other random things because there aren’t a lot of philosophy jobs. I know you did event production in New York City, and the pandemic came along and messed things up. I read something about a spreadsheet activity that pointed you to astrology, so maybe you can tell me about that journey from Catholicism to philosophy to event production to astrology. I want the CliffsNotes version of how you got from A to B.

Babs Cheung: Yeah, very unconventional. I love it. Thank you for doing the research. I’m flattered. So, I was raised in a scientific home. All of my family is in STEM: engineering, mathematics. My mother is a mathematician, my father is an astrophysicist, and my brother is in STEM. It was expected of me to do STEM as well, but I didn’t want to. I was the kind of person who wanted to take a gap year to learn about myself, but that wasn’t allowed. So I went to school reluctantly, on a scholarship, and I was on the fast track to becoming a botanist. But in my junior year, I had a breakdown.

I live in New York, and I had a two-hour commute each way. I fell asleep on the train for six hours, going back and forth between stops. That’s when I realized this wasn’t worth it. The next day, I quit all my classes. I made enemies because the biochem department was small, and I switched to philosophy because I had the most credits in electives. I ended up being really good at philosophy and took all the awards from people who had been working for them, which made more enemies.

People asked what I would do with a philosophy degree, and I said, “Learn to be poor so that when I make money, even a little, I’ll be fine.” Eventually, I went into fashion and personal styling. I created an event production company for empowered women in New York, and it was great. But when the pandemic hit, everything shut down. I wasn’t willing to go to jail for throwing events, so I meditated, and the universe told me to create a spreadsheet. Three columns: what I’m good at, what I love to do, and what I’m willing to do for free.

Astrology ended up being the thing that combined all the columns. That’s how I created my business model. Now I’m in my fourth year and I’m making money, which is good.

Becky Mollenkamp: That is good. I think a lot of people don’t realize that businesses take time to grow. The online business space has made people think they should be millionaires in a year, and it’s just silly. That’s not the reality for most businesses, and that’s why so many fail. They go into business expecting that.

Babs Cheung: Totally.

Becky Mollenkamp: Not realizing that for many businesses it takes three to five years to become profitable. And they’re not ready for that, so they fold. That’s why so many businesses fold in those first three years. But before we get into business more, I want to know more about astrology specifically. As a person who’s very heady and comes to things through, like, my upbringing with an emphasis on education, I think it’s similar to you in that way.

Babs Cheung: Yep, exactly.

Becky Mollenkamp: I had two parents who both had advanced college degrees. Education was emphasized. I developed this idea that you have to have a degree in order to say you’re good at something. This is something I’ve had to move past because I have two degrees in journalism, and while I use them in some ways, moving into coaching was hard. I felt like, “I don’t have a degree in that, I don’t have the credentials, I don’t have those bona fides to say I can do this thing.” Well, astrology isn’t a field where you go and get a degree. I don’t even know if there are astrology degrees. So how did you come to that? It wasn’t like you had a degree in it. Did you do years of study? How did you come to the place of saying, “This is something I can do”?

Babs Cheung: Yes, exactly.

Becky Mollenkamp: Astrology wasn’t even strongly in your background. So, because you didn’t have that degree and have some of that similar background around education, how did you develop the internal confidence to say, “I can do this”? And by the way, I now don’t believe you need a degree, just to be clear. But how did you develop that internal confidence? This is something that happens with women so often—they hold themselves back because they don’t have a third party, a college or credentialing body, telling them they’re qualified. How did you get to that place?

Babs Cheung: Ooh, that’s such a good question. I’ve never been asked this before, so I love it. So, to clarify, there are definitely schools that will give you a certificate in astrology, and there are global schools that do very advanced, rigorous studies in specified niches. Much respect to them. However, for me, I’m self-study. If people saw my chart, they’d understand why.

Becky Mollenkamp: Good to know.

Babs Cheung: It’s just easier for me. I learn from different resources, but the best for me is auditory because I like listening at two times the speed. In live lectures, I can’t do that, so I zone out. I just know my strengths and stick to them. I studied astrology, and I mean studied, like I read astrology books as a kid. I was 11 and obsessed. My gateway was learning about my Scorpio moon because I noticed other kids weren’t bogged down by the depths of emotion at a young age, but I always was. I thought something was wrong with me, but then I discovered the Scorpio moon placement and realized nothing was wrong—I just hadn’t found people who resonated with that energy.

To learn astrology, the best way is to learn about yourself because you are the living embodiment of your chart. All the experiences you have help inform how it might translate into a chart or how it expresses itself. To answer your question, though, the point when I felt confident enough to do this as a business was in 2020. After I did the spreadsheet, I decided, “OK, I need to be an astrologer.” Before that, I had some business training from my event planning business, though it wasn’t finalized to the point of getting an LLC. I was doing contract work.

I knew branding was the strongest toolkit for any business, so I wanted to get clear on branding first before launching or getting an LLC. I needed to understand brand identity first, as a way to present to the public. So I did a lot of market research. I learned that many astrologers weren’t charging premium rates, which I think subtracts from others like myself who value the work more. It was a lot of market research—finding gaps in the market and figuring out how to fill them. The number one thing I found was that everyone was focused on love readings or career readings, but no one was addressing the bigger question: what the fuck is going on?

So, I created my first reading called WTFIGO, which stands for “what the fuck is going on.” That’s what people want to know when they go to a psychic, astrologer, or spiritual practice. They want to understand what’s going on so they can address the situation, control their reaction to it, and move forward. I beta-tested that for a year. I did donation-based readings for friends and family and asked them if I could read their charts to get as much practice as possible.

From there, friends and family started paying me, and one of my greatest friends told me I should charge more—$200, $300, even $400. She reflected to me that I was helping her tremendously, and that’s when I started charging premium prices. That external validation helped, but it wasn’t an institution giving me permission; it was clients telling me I was doing a great job. So that’s what happened—someone paid me 400% more than I was charging, which helped me build confidence. But it wasn’t like paying $70,000 to an institution for a piece of paper that says you did something.

Becky Mollenkamp: Were you doing readings before that spreadsheet? Wow, so it was all new. I mean, it was something you had an interest in, but you hadn’t actively been doing. Fascinating.

Babs Cheung: Yeah, I was good at it. Like in college, I printed out everyone’s birth charts, but I didn’t know how to read them as fluidly as I do now. It’s a language I had to build up. But in 2020, I developed my own intellectual property, like quarterly planning. And 2020 was the best time to test that out because we were in a bubble, and it turned out it worked. By 2023, I got my LLC, so I’m technically in my second official year of business, but I’ve been doing it for four years.

Becky Mollenkamp: I think there are so many interesting things here about trusting yourself, believing in yourself, and betting on yourself. It comes up often with my clients. This need for outside evidence to prove they can do something, like waiting for permission to be qualified.

Babs Cheung: Yeah.

Becky Mollenkamp: They often have evidence that they can do something, but it’s not enough because they want an “expert” voice to give them permission. And in our society, that often means a white male voice. I love your story because it demystifies that and shows you don’t need that—you can give yourself that permission. Is that something you realized from your own astrology or is it just how you’re wired?

Babs Cheung: Exactly. People see my chart and understand why I didn’t go to school. Astrology helps because it teaches you about yourself and how you express yourself. In a given year, you change, which is part of the human condition. If you’re stagnant, something is wrong, and astrology can help explain that. It builds self-awareness, which helps you tackle internalized misogyny, external misogyny, and systems of oppression.

Also, astrology creates an emotional language. When you speak astrology and find someone else who does too, it’s an instant connection. You get each other in a way that doesn’t happen with other languages. It’s a deeply feminist practice because it fosters connection and understanding in that emotional, spiritual realm.

Becky Mollenkamp: I see that with people who are into human design or the Enneagram too. Astrology, and similar tools, help us understand how we show up in the world. It gives us a language that lets us say, “I see you,” which is what everyone wants—to be seen. It’s a framework to understand ourselves and others. That’s so powerful.

Babs Cheung: Exactly.

Becky Mollenkamp: It lets you say, “This is just how I am. I was born this way.” In the words of Lady Gaga, “I was born this way.” How can that be wrong? It makes you start to question what made you believe it was wrong. And that’s why it’s so feminist—because it puts us on that journey of asking, what made me believe who I am is wrong?

Babs Cheung: Exactly. However, I do want to address zodiacal bigotry, where people decide they don’t like Scorpios because all the Scorpios they know hurt them. Like with Taurus—I’m a Taurus.

Becky Mollenkamp: You mean my thoughts about Tauruses? Gotcha. Except for you, obviously. I only mean male Tauruses.

Babs Cheung: Yeah, yeah, male Tauruses, right, exactly. That’s kind of the thing—it’s sensationalized and part of the pop astrology paradigm to rag on signs because misery loves company. But I make it a core tenet of my practice that we don’t bash others. Instead, we talk about immature or unhealed Taurus men not being great. We need qualifiers, or it becomes a fast descent into bigotry, which is what we’re against here. So yeah, I just wanted to address that.

Becky Mollenkamp: I love “unhealed.” No, I think it’s great because the whole point of what I was saying is that being seen is not being hated or prejudged. Being seen means I understand how you show up, and if it’s not providing that understanding, it’s not helpful. You brought me to where I wanted to go because I know you aren’t just doing basic sun sign readings. For someone like me who didn’t know much about astrology a year ago, that was my understanding of it. I’m a Pisces, I read the horoscope that says what’s going to happen in my day or how I am as a Pisces. Astrology, I now know after getting my chart done with you, is way more than just that. Sun sign stuff barely scratches the surface. So what is your hot take or frustration with pop astrology?

Babs Cheung: Sure. I have strong mixed feelings about pop astrology. Let’s start with the good: it brings curiosity in people, and that’s a gateway. It’s like how the Barbie movie is a gateway to feminism. That Cosmo magazine article about making yourself irresistible as a Pisces is a gateway to learning more about yourself. Great, fantastic. But if you stop there, it’s not helpful.

Becky Mollenkamp: Yeah, if you never get yourself to bell hooks and Audre Lorde, then what are you even doing? You’re missing out on so much.

Babs Cheung: Exactly. So if you love pop astrology or your Co-Star app and want to know compatibility, try digging deeper. Find a book that resonates, or use apps like The Pattern, which is better. There’s crowdsourcing through Reddit and many avenues to explore, but there’s also a lot of misinformation. That’s when you need a trusted astrologer to help answer your questions.

What I really don’t like about pop astrology is that most of it is sold in a way that’s very “bro-like.” It uses fear and insecurities against us, telling us we’re on the wrong path or that things aren’t working out because of something we did wrong. For example, on The Pattern app, someone freaked out over a transit and asked if their boyfriend was going to dump them because of it. Everyone chimed in with “yes,” while astrologers were like, “What are you talking about? There’s no context for this.” There’s a weird discourse happening that laypeople can’t discern.

Astrology is not super regulated, and that’s a problem. The hardest part is that misogyny, bro culture, and capitalism are so interwoven with astrology now. The best way to sell someone on a reading is to tell them there’s something wrong with them or their life choices. I don’t subscribe to that. My job is to give you all your options. I can’t guarantee they’ll all be good, but at least you’ll have options. People get stuck when they think there’s only one way to go, and it’s my job to show them there are many ways, even if they all might suck.

Becky Mollenkamp: This whole idea of astrology being bro-ified is something many of us in various industries understand. In marketing, for example, Kelly Diels talks about de-bro marketing. As a coach, I see how patriarchal, capitalist, and white supremacist ideologies make coaching gross by preying on insecurities. There’s always this “one right way” approach, and it’s harmful. It’s a reminder that it’s everywhere, in every industry, and that finding someone who understands the bigger context is crucial. That’s what you’re trying to do, right? One of your big offers is called “main character energy,” right? Tell me about that.

Babs Cheung: Yes! “Main character energy” is one of my intro offerings. I know it can sound a little cutesy because more people are using the term now, but it’s deeply feminist. It’s about stepping outside all the bro stuff and saying, “I’m going to take up space.” How does astrology relate to that? It’s related to branding. I wanted a strong brand with a motif that would carry me through for years. I came across a TikTok about “a day in the life of a supporting character,” and I loved that POV. That’s how I feel. I’m your supporting character because you are the main character. My job is to be connected and tapped in so you can live your life, knowing I have your back.

Main character energy is the antithesis of centering men. Whether it’s the male gaze or institutions that were exclusively male-dominated, it’s about reclaiming that space for ourselves.

Becky Mollenkamp: Yeah, and it wasn’t all that long ago that things started to change. In the grand scheme of humanity, it was very recent.

Babs Cheung: Yeah, all men. So it’s no wonder there’s this movement now in the dating world. Thank God you’re married. I don’t even—it is so rough out there. But we all know we need to decenter men, and it’s so difficult because that’s what we’re ingrained in. It’s what we grew up in. We understand it’s like, daughters have to take care of their aging parents. Why is it not put on the son? Because the son is married and has his own family. And it’s like, okay, but the woman gets married too—she has her own family. What are you talking about? It’s just this whole messed-up, very fucked-up system. Becoming a main character in your life is really like taking the driver’s seat. It’s not letting life pass you by or just rolling into the obligations of being a woman in all of your roles. I always think about Virginia Woolf and how she talked about a woman always being interrupted. That’s that main character energy—saying, “I’m speaking.”

Becky Mollenkamp: Every mom listening knows that feeling of being interrupted. And that “I’m speaking” makes me think of Kamala Harris in that debate—”I’m speaking.” We all know that feeling, right? You live your life up to a certain point, and often it’s when you get married or have kids, where the life you had before fades away. You feel even more acutely how much you aren’t the main character. But when you reflect back, you might even think, “Was I ever really?” Especially what you said about oldest daughters—I’m one of those, so I know that feeling. It’s always about prioritizing others. So prioritizing yourself is deeply feminist and very challenging. How does astrology help with that?

Babs Cheung: Yeah, it helps by getting to know yourself. When you first look at your astrology chart, whether on an app, with an astrologer, or in your own self-study, it’s the first time you’re seeing yourself the way the universe sees you, which is a very unbiased view. It comes from a place of unconditional love. It’s like, here’s a person that was born at this exact time in this exact location, and while there may be overlap with other people, certain nuances are strictly unique to you. When you look at that chart, you see so much information, and the more you think about yourself, the more you step into that main character energy. That’s all it really takes.

And it’s not about being self-centered in the negative way we were raised to think of it. We were told if we think about ourselves too much, we’re navel-gazing or selfish. But we’re trying to decenter men so we can self-center. I don’t think being self-centered is bad. In fact, we should reclaim that term. What else would I center? A man? A white man? Who else?

Becky Mollenkamp: Right. And it’s not something that’s hurled at men in the same way it is at women. Growing up, Mom—if you’re listening, I love you—but I was often told I was selfish whenever I centered myself. Now I’m like, let’s take that back, let’s own selfish, because I want to prioritize myself. I want to care about myself. And I think it often comes from people who haven’t done that work yet and can’t center themselves. There’s this deep, unconscious longing to be able to do it, but they can’t. So, they project that as a bad thing onto someone else to make themselves feel better. When that criticism comes at us, it’s usually about them.

Babs Cheung: Yeah.

Becky Mollenkamp: Going back to what you said about people being “immature” or “unhealed”—that unhealed piece is important.

Babs Cheung: Yes, unhealed, exactly. The phrase I really want to take back is “self-centered” because it just makes sense for decentering men. That’s what we’re trying to do. And Becky, I know you’re a member of a big community. If you don’t center yourself once in a while, you’re going to burn out. Burnout, as many coaches know, is a systemic issue ingrained in our work culture. And once you’re burned out, recovery takes a lot of time and effort. If we had a culture that said, “No, it’s good to self-center regularly,” maybe even monthly, we’d all have so much more to give. We’d all have more resources if we said, “Today is a self-centered day—I’m doing what I need to do. No one interrupt me.”

Becky Mollenkamp: Well, and as you know, I take quarterly hotel weekends for myself. I thought maybe you didn’t know that. I thought you did. Yeah, I’ve talked about it here before, so people might be thinking, “We know, Becky.” But I’m going to keep saying it until my face is blue because I think it’s so important, especially for people in relationships and parents, to get out and do something for themselves. If you’re the only person in your domain, it might be easier physically.

Babs Cheung: You do? Okay, I didn’t know that, no. Okay. Yes.

Becky Mollenkamp: But it’s all mental, right? Carving out that time is a giant mental battle, getting to the place of saying, “I’m allowed to do this.” So once a quarter, I take two nights at a hotel just for me—whatever the fuck I want to do. That gives me the energy I need to sustain myself. I’m even at the point where I wish I could do it monthly. I don’t think I’m there yet, but what you’re inspiring me to think is that I can still schedule it. What I’d love to do is get to the place where I’m scheduling…

Babs Cheung: Yeah. Incredible. Yeah, okay, soon.

Becky Mollenkamp: …like a day. I’m only working four days a week, so maybe one day a week. It doesn’t have to be long, but I could say, “If I just want to sleep today, I can.” Or, “If I just want to read books today, I can.” That stuff is so important. It leads me to the next thing I want to talk about, which is planning. Planning is actually what brought me to you in the first place. It was the first thing that made me think, “Yeah, I think I’m getting it right.” It was the idea of planning in a feminist way and using astrology to help plan.

Babs Cheung: Okay.

Becky Mollenkamp: In this more feminist way. And to me, feminist means planning that’s self-centered, based on what you as an individual need, and honors how you show up in the world. You help business owners plan their fiscal quarters according to their birth chart. I think you call it “Plan It by the Planets,” which I love. We even did a joint thing last year, or earlier this year, working on this with people.

Babs Cheung: Yep. Yep.

Becky Mollenkamp: Because I do a lot of planning stuff, but I’ve never done it through an astrological lens. It really opened my eyes to when my year actually starts, when I have creative bursts, and when I need to honor the need to chill the fuck out and avoid burnout. Tell people who are listening a little about that. I think for business owners, especially those who are like me and are unsure if they’re really “woo,” woo-adjacent, or just woo-curious…

Babs Cheung: Ha! Hahaha.

Becky Mollenkamp: This might be their gateway drug. So tell people about it.

Babs Cheung: And don’t forget, closet woo—we have that too. Yeah. So, again, I’m all about the questions. We ask the right question, and everything kind of reveals itself. One question I know business owners ask is, “Why is it that no matter what I do, nothing pushes the needle?” That’s a lot of stress—a very stressful situation. Then there’s another stressful situation, like, “Why does everyone want a piece of me all at once? Why now?” It overwhelms the nervous system.

When we look at the birth chart as a way to conduct and format time, because, as we said earlier, what is time, really? Truly, it’s what you make of it. So when we look at your birth chart—like, what’s your rising sign? You’re a Pisces sun, but Scorpio rising, right?

Becky Mollenkamp: I’m a Pisces sun and a Scorpio rising. I think I’m a Libra moon.

Babs Cheung: No, no, no, I thought you were Libra rising.

Becky Mollenkamp: Well, I don’t remember. I have it right here. I’m a Pisces sun, Libra moon, and a Scorpio rising.

Babs Cheung: We’ll go with that. Yeah, okay. So when I first introduced this to you, I said that somewhere in Scorpio season is the beginning of your year. It’s the transition period where you go from feeling down in the dumps, dealing with 12th house stuff—mental prisons, imposter syndrome, all the heavy stuff. It’s like a sweatpants-eating-popcorn-in-bed kind of time. Then it shifts to your first house, the ascendant degree, which for you is Scorpio season. Suddenly, you’re ready—you put on normal pants, take a shower, and want to get the show on the road. That transition happens every year, and you can count on it.

As you move through the quarters, your chart breaks down into four specific quarters. Year after year, the same themes come up around the same time. There are certain planets that may go retrograde during some years and not others, but you get into the rhythm of it. You understand, “Okay, quarter three is my busiest, so I need support and delegation to avoid burnout.” Then, maybe quarter four is empty, so you know you can take a vacation.

I introduce this especially to people with large families or those married to another entrepreneur. Aligning schedules becomes really important, especially when you’re trying to plan a vacation, and one person keeps getting pinged and can’t be present. By aligning schedules, you create this amazing time hack where everything flows, and you can plan for it year over year. My ultimate goal is for you to not need me anymore. I want you to have the tools so you can figure it out from there.

Becky Mollenkamp: Yeah, when we did this, what I discovered, like you’re saying, is that Scorpio piece, which I had never even looked at. I only ever looked at the Pisces part, right? And that limited understanding took away this knowledge you helped share. It was like a window into saying, “I see you”—for me to say to myself, “I see you, Becky.” Here’s how you’re wired: every year, around October, even late September, you start getting really excited about the year ahead. You’re done with the current year, and you’re ready for the next. I never really understood why everyone else didn’t feel the same way or why everyone cared about this arbitrary January thing. By January, I’m already well into my new year. I started planning back in September, was implementing in October, and by November, I’m fully into it. So come January, I’m like, “I’m halfway through my year, what’s wrong with everyone? Catch up, people!”

Understanding that helped me recognize how to use that energy to my advantage. Then, also looking at parts of my calendar or year when I have no energy, when I’m not productive, it’s like, “Oh, that explains why I don’t want to do shit during that time.” It’s helpful to honor that instead of fighting against it, which is what we often do. Whatever tool gets you there is great, and if astrology can be that tool, then awesome. I think the big thing I want people to take from this—and I think you probably do too—is to find the tool that works for you and then allow yourself to use that to honor yourself and your needs. It’s so important. So, you’re writing a book. How does that tie into all of this? Is it related to a specific piece of this? Your journey? I want to hear about it.

Babs Cheung: It is actually a book that will help people discover how they can participate in activism through their astrological chart and placements. It takes on a bit of pop astrology just because we live in a capitalist world, so I have to kind of play by the rules.

Becky Mollenkamp: Exactly, that’s true.

Babs Cheung: Basically, I take on the history of astrology, and I go into that whole piece about how it was originally men who really loved astrology, and now it’s women, right? I talk about that shift, and then I break down the charts of famous activists to show how astrology expresses itself. I want to inspire people. Like, Dolly Parton is a Capricorn, and she’s the archetype of the mastermind. She pools her money into causes and organizations that have a profound impact, like the free library she started. It’s such a mastermind move—fostering a love of reading for kids who otherwise couldn’t afford books.

Becky Mollenkamp: And it’s probably something that comes easy for her. That’s the thing—this gives you the understanding of how, instead of fighting how you’re wired, you can turn it into a superpower. How do you use that information to your advantage? Women often discount things that come naturally to them as not valuable, right? Not charging that premium price, not saying, “I’m allowed to do this.” We’re taught that everything has to be hard to be valuable. If you didn’t sweat, bleed, and cry, it wasn’t worthy. So when something is easy, like Dolly naturally pooling money for causes, it feels logical and simple to her. But it’s having this huge impact. I love that understanding of using these things not only for yourself but also for activism that makes sense for you.

Babs Cheung: Exactly. This book challenges the idea of activism as only the loud, visible kind. So much of activism isn’t accessible to everyone. I personally don’t feel comfortable going to a protest where I might get tear-gassed. That’s too chaotic for me, but there are quiet ways to participate in activism that don’t get shown because they’re not flashy. Like writing to your representative or calling nonstop—that’s activism, too. One of my favorite chapters is about Cancer being the archetype of the safety monitor. In activism, the safety monitor makes sure you’re not burning out, that you have boundaries, that you’re getting enough sleep. You need someone to check in and say, “Are you resting? Did you eat?” It’s just as important as the person on the front lines getting tear-gassed.

Becky Mollenkamp: That’s the Jordans of the world for me—if you listen to season one of the podcast, you know who I’m talking about. She’s been checking on me lately, reminding me to rest because I’ve been doing too much. That kind of care is just as important as the activism out on the front lines. I recently learned about the Social Change Map from Deepa Iyer, which talks about the different roles in activism. She mentions storytellers, guides, visionaries, healers (who are like what you’re describing), caregivers, disruptors, builders. I’ll link to it because I think it’s great, and combining your book with her framework would help people figure out how to show up in activism.

Babs Cheung: Yes, the number one goal is to not burn out. That’s been an issue with previous waves of feminism—other life events stifle momentum. Like, the fourth wave was just beginning, then bam, a pandemic hit. Now we’re in this weird limbo, and depending on how the election goes, it could go one way or the other. Either way, the stars are aligning, and we are ending patriarchy in our lifetime.

Becky Mollenkamp: Girlfriend, I hope you’re correct! I’d love to live long enough to feel that complete shift. I don’t know if I will, but I want to see it for my child and his children. I want to see a future where it’s finally gone.

Babs Cheung: I can tell you about the long-term transit coming up. I’m aligning my book with Chiron entering Aries. Chiron is the wounded healer, which is why I keep talking about “unhealed” signs. When Chiron goes into Aries, it’s the moment society will have to audit toxic masculinity. Aries is ruled by Mars, the planet of masculine energy. This transit will make us face how toxic masculinity hurts men. I think 2026, when my book will be out, is when we’ll see the beginnings of that. It’ll be a slow burn through 2028, but that’s when we’ll start seeing a shift.

Becky Mollenkamp: Okay, I’ll be back in 2026, checking in to see if we’re on track! I’ll hold you to it. That’s awesome. Let’s wind things up. We’re going to do a bonus conversation about Mercury retrograde, since that’s the astrological thing I hear most often in business communities. People say it all the time, but I think a lot of people don’t really understand what it means. If you want to hear that conversation, subscribe to the Feminist Founders newsletter. Babs, before we wrap up, can you share a resource that’s been valuable to you?

Babs Cheung: Yeah, so while researching feminist books and writing my sample chapters, I kept returning to a book called Girlie Drinks by Mallory O’Meara.

Becky Mollenkamp: I’ve never heard of this! I’ll link to it in the show notes.

Babs Cheung: It’s so good. It’s the history of drinking, specifically making alcohol. Turns out, women invented alcohol!

Becky Mollenkamp: Now I have to read it. That’s really interesting because it’s certainly not the world we live in now!

Babs Cheung: Right? On top of that, I now always cheers to “ending patriarchy” and say, “Fuck Hammurabi,” because I learned that when the Hammurabi codes were created, that’s when patriarchy began. Women weren’t allowed to drink, even though they were the ones making the drinks!

Becky Mollenkamp: Okay, and last thing—what’s an organization doing good work in the world that you’d like to highlight?

Babs Cheung: I’d like to highlight the Psychedelic Sisterhood. They educate women on harm reduction for psychedelics and promote safe, therapeutic use. As legislation moves toward legalizing psilocybin, they’re helping make the conversation around psychedelics less taboo. They also sponsor events like ketamine therapy with clinicians to help people work through trauma in a therapeutic state.

Becky Mollenkamp: I love that. I’ve asked this question for nearly 100 episodes, and there hasn’t been a repeat yet! It just shows how many great organizations are doing amazing work. I’ll make a donation as a thank you for your time, and I encourage listeners to do the same. I’ll link to it in the show notes. Thank you, Babs! We’ll go have our bonus conversation now, so subscribe to hear about Mercury retrograde. Maybe this will even air during Mercury retrograde! Thanks for your time, Babs.

Babs Cheung: Thank you!